On Palestine by Noam Chomsky & Ilan Pappé

Author:Noam Chomsky & Ilan Pappé [Chomsky, Noam]
Language: eng
Format: azw3, mobi
Tags: Human Rights, Israel & Palestine, Middle Eastern, Middle East, Political Science, World, Commentary & Opinion, History
ISBN: 9781608465019
Publisher: Haymarket Books
Published: 2015-03-23T04:16:45.489861+00:00

This conversation between Noam Chomsky, Ilan Pappé, and Frank Barat was recorded on January 17, 2014, and has been condensed and edited.

* See Ian S. Lustick, “Two-State Illusion,” op-ed, New York Times, September 14, 2013.

Chapter Five

Inside Israel

FB: Ilan, you are a historian, you’ve published numerous books, among them the famous and controversial for some people Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine in 2006. In 2007 you moved to England where you are currently teaching history at Exeter University. You are part of what is called by some people “the new historians” who give a new analysis and narrative of the history of Zionism and the history of the creation of Israel. You’ve taken some radical positions against the state of Israel. Why and when did you decide to stand on the Palestinians’ side? And what were the consequences for you, being Israeli?

IP: Changing one’s point of view on such a crucial issue is a long journey, it doesn’t happen in one day and it doesn’t happen because of one event. I’ve tried in one of my books called Out of the Frame to describe this journey out of Zionism to a critical position against Zionism. If I had to choose a formative event that really changed my point of view in a dramatic way, it would be the Israeli attack on Lebanon in 1982. For us who grew up in Israel, it was the first non-consensus war, the first war that obviously was a war of choice: Israel was not attacked, Israel attacked. Then the first Intifada happened. These events were eye-openers in many ways for people like myself who already had some doubts about Zionism, about the historical version we learned at school.

It is a long journey and once you take it, you are facing your own society, you are even facing your own family and it is not a nice position to be in. People who know Israel know that it is an intimate and vibrant society so if you are against it, you feel it in every aspect of your life. I think this is one of the reasons why it takes a bit longer for the people like me to come to the point where you say there is no return: you have to subscribe to these views whatever the repercussions are.

FB: I find what you are saying about Israel very interesting. Most

nation-states are very good propagandists, but Israel has taken this to another level. I know someone, whom you also know, Nurit Peled-Elhanan, who has written a book about the way Arabs are portrayed in Israeli schoolbooks to show the world the amount of brainwashing and propaganda in Israel that starts from a very early age. Can you tell us more about this society as you’ve experienced this yourself as well?

IP: Indeed. It is a very indoctrinated society, probably more than most Western societies and more than the non-Western societies. It is not because of coercion that people are indoctrinated; it is a powerful indoctrination from the moment you are born to the moment you die.

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